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Why do people condemn the Phelps family when both old testament and new say to execute gays disobedient children those who work on the sabbath etc?

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Answer

NOWHERE does my Bible tell me - particularly in a New Testament context - that it is OK for me to do any of these things. I am not familiar with the case referred to but I don't need to be to know what the Bible's teaching is. Read the New Testament as it is for the answer - in it's full context and spirit.

Answer

the following are the verses that the questioner are refering to, including the Etc...

For disobedient children
Ex.21:15 "He that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death."
Ex.21:17 "He that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death."
Lev.20:9 "For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him."
For witches
Ex.22:18 "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."
For Beastiality
Ex.22:19 "Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death."
Lev.20:15 "And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast."
Lev.20:16 "And if a woman approach unto any beast, and lie down thereto, thou shalt kill the woman, and the beast: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
For worshipping another god
Ex.22:20 "He that sacrificeth unto any god save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed."
For breaking the Sabbath
Ex.31:14 "Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death."
Ex.31:15 "Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death."
Ex.35:2 "Six days shall work bedone, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death."
For adultery
Lev.20:10 "And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death."
For Murder
Gen.9:6 "Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed."
For Incest
Lev.20:11 "And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
Lev.20:12 "And if a man lie with his daughter in law, both of them shall surely be put to death: they have wrought confusion; their blood shall be upon them."
Lev.20:14 "And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you."
For Homosexuality
Lev.20:13 "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
For Blasphemy
Lev.24:16 "He that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him."
For stealing slaves
Ex.21:16 "He that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death."
For not being a virgin on the night of the wedding
Dt.22:13-22 "If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her ... and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate.... But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you."
For Rape Victims who don't cry out loudly enough
Dt.22:23-24 "If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you."
Yes it's in the Bible

  • Does the Bible approves of Capital punishments?

answer; NO

Gen.4:15
"And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him."
Jn.8:3-7
"And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? ... Jesus ... said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

  • Add;

from New testament.

From Matthew: Jesus in reference to Moses laws including executing gays, adulterers, etc.

5:17 Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfil.

5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished.

All from Romans:

1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile passions: for their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature:

1:27 and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working unseemliness, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was due.

1:28 And even as they refused to have God in `their' knowledge, God gave them up unto a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting;

1:29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

1:30 backbiters, hateful to God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

1:31 without understanding, covenant-breakers, without natural affection, unmerciful:

1:32 who, knowing the ordinance of God, that they that practise such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but also consent with them that practise them

Revelation 14

14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Curious Conflict

I confess to frequently having trouble with understanding testament speak if you will....but one thing is clear to me - (with one possible exception as quoted above) - NONE of the verses say YOU, I, ME or WE should kill or put to death the one doing the offensive act - only some version of "...they shall surely be put to death....". Which is MUCH different.

Foolish me, I always thought these things were to advise of how to behave and forwarn of the consequence of not doing so. But, that the finding of guilt and carrying out of the sentence was ONLY for the Almighty himself to do. So I can't understand how anyone thinks someone else doing so is justifiable and certainly can't claim it as being ordained.

Regarding the question...

I choose not to deal with all of the out-of-context verse citations mentioned above, except to say that some of them refer only to the Israelites, not to present-day Christians, and that others are given with various assumptions that don't hold water when taken in context. (That's part of the "testament speak" referred to earlier; the New Testament directs external sin into the inside of a person, noting that it's the attitudes that cause sin, not the deeds.)

Conflict like this, though, is how some people justify dastardly deeds such as killing "sinners," which I presume this "Phelps family" has done or supports doing. This is why you cannot take pieces of the Bible out of context and make any sort of rule-base with them; it doesn't work that way. Just as you cannot pick and choose passages of a textbook to use to represent the thought behind the writing, you cannot pick and choose snippets of the Bible and get the full meaning absent from the rest of Scripture.

If the "Phelps family" mentioned in the question is Fred Phelps and his family, then perhaps the problem is that he isn't doing what is cited above, but is simply speaking. Seriously, though, the problem here is that he says that God hates various people. No, He doesn't. God is love (1 John 4:8-20). That doesn't mean He can accept sin, but it does mean that He provides grace. Fred Phelps, on the other hand, should have a problem with 1 John 4:19-21:

We love because he [God] first loved us. If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother.

God doesn't hate homosexuals. He does hate the sin of homosexuality. Since it's a sin, it's a choice, by the way, but that's beyond the scope of this question. Fred Phelps seems to be unable to separate the sin from the sinner, which means he is not speaking for God.

Luke 14:26

If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children,and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.


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First answer by Grevillea. Last edit by Itchie.c2. Contributor trust: 772 [recommend contributor]. Question popularity: 23 [recommend question]

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